Good one David. I never played the game either, but fans do get a say. IMHO….the Stars got pushed around big time in the playoffs, and there was no response from the Stars. Whether by design or not, when the going gets rough, the rough should get going, and the Stars didn’t. Forecheck, hipcheck, or hot check……there must be a response that tells the opposition to back off.
David I’ve seen a lot more articles and podcasts with Joey that leads most to believe Miro will finally start again on his strong side because of the influx of righties. Now they may not be the best righties (I’m including Lundquist getting a look in camp) but we’ve seen Llubshkin hold up decent next to O’reilly and Miro is the ultimate ‘caveat’ when observing a Stars defender punching above their weight. Dumba and Harley has been tossed around. Much rather see Lindell with Lundquist on the 3rd pair. It insulates the kid who actually played well with Suter on the 3rd for most of last year and Lindell shouldn’t be on top pair anyway. Anything should be considered to keep Miro on the left.
One forward comment, don’t be surprised to see Stankhoven get a shot on the top line and Johnston center the second line with Benn maintaining his Doc Holiday role. Bourque on the wing there or occasional sub with Duchene one line down makes a lot more sense unless his camp performance is convincing enough to earn 2C on opening night.
Thanks for the article frequency during the August doldrums
The thing with Heiskanen on his strongside is that it pushes Lindell out of the top four, and that ain't happening. Lindell actually played more minutes per game in the playoffs than Tanev. The organization loves Lindell, even if this is likely his last and final year, and I just don't see DeBoer burying him on the bottom pair just to have a Heiskanen-Dumba/Lyubushkin, Harley-Dumba/Lyubushkin top four.
Don't get me wrong. I WANT to see it. I've been begging for it for years. But their best defenders are all left handed, which james it up. I'll talk more about the ideal lineups for 2.0 in September, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is how they start, and likely how they end. I suspect we'll see Seguin up there before Stankoven, though. Again, just my personal opinion. As mentioned, I'll focus more on what I consider the potential ideal lineup in the next iteration, but DeBoer is pretty consistent with his forward trios, which is amusing, because he seems surprisingly flexible with mixing up the defensive pairs (which I would assume is a little more disruptive to player chemistry, but what do I know?).
Just look to pav last season and how he still stayed up top even after it was fairly clear he was done. Seguin and Lindell will also get extra chances, let’s just hope that isn’t at the expense of people like bourque and bichsel.
I'm glad we're both pulling ammo from the same stockpile. I think the two of us specifically would love them to roll out this on opening night (assuming solid training camps to boot for everyone):
Robertson Hintz Johnston
Benn Bourque Stankhoven
Marchment Seguin Duchene
Dadonov Steele Blackwell
Heiskanen Llubshkyn
Harley Dumba
Lindell Lundquist
Let it roll until you have reason to change course. If it’s progressing well enough but the unfinished product could use a piece then god willing they set their sights on Rasmus Andersson or Adam Larsson at the tdl. Imagine that for a moment :')
Reason I'm focused on this area is because it brings us back to a broader discussion of hockey philosophy. We may all commend that Nill is a stand up delegator and change maker. His noble deference to vets running the length of a contract as opposed to a buyout and selling the Stars culture is all admirable. But how it manifests on the ice is concerning after a decade with him at the helm. Now we certainly can’t grouse and hang our heads over a stanley cup final, some western conference final runs, and some division crowns etc. (caveats like a 4 month layoff to reboot for a bubble run mutually inclusive with the credit given as well)
However, the perennial "i like where our teams at" mantra seems a bit hackneyed and meaningless after 10 plus years. I would ask him, Deboer, and TG, so you're completely satisfied that since day 1 of his rookie year you've endeavoured a minimal course correction to get Miro on his strong side with a competent righty next to him? So much so that their podium defense is "he's elite on either side anybody is the better for playing next to him". So whenever something is not going according to plan lets smash that Miro button on the controller and hope the configuration stays intact. Not enhance the surroundings of your best player??? (As Cuban and Co did far too long with Luka, just to add I’m aware this is not an exclusive critique to just one Dallas sport)
Does colorado ask Makar to play on his offside? Do they ask him to drag around inferior ogres? Hedman in Tampa? Dahlin in Buffalo? Fox in New York? Funny that the moment you stuck not an elite righty but a more than capable one next to Miro for a season well wouldn't you know! Norris numbers and hey look at number 4's crafty mitts crossing the blue line!
Instead they doubled down and decided to run 5D in the playoffs. Did it contribute an extra game or 2 that did not have to be played against VGS or COL? The visual evidence certainly supports it. Colorado didn't draft Toews they just went out and got him. Tampa went out and got Sergachev. Vegas well Vegas is a different gun slinger all together but you get my point. I'm not saying you unleash your entire armory of assets to solve every single imperfect dilemma. But where was the Pavs and Nill -esque civility within Suter? Rule number 1 when the Wild cut a player thats all you need to know whether to offer said player a phone call lol And yet we did, was it too much for Suter to acquiesce a modicum of that diva complex and take one for the team? you don't belong on the top pair bruhhhh. Why don't you play your offside? Why don't you speak up and say nah I want to a win a cup so maybe don't assign me the PP2 QB role. Deboer didn't just decide he was gonna role with 5 and give Lundquist the ax at game 82. So why are he and Jim not having these discussions by 1pm on tdl day saying "hey you might wanna bring a walker or a Roy as well because I don't have a complete 3rd pair that revs my engine." Because if I understand this aren't Joe, Dutch, and even Sulking Suter here on these show me deals and last hoorahs bc they believe that not only are we a cup contender but the GM has intimated
“for this window I cannot guarantee you a cup, BUT I guarantee I'm not clutching my key assets like sacred pearls or staging a coup with coach and owner in order to establish consistency instead of legacy, complacency instead of opportunity, nobility instead of prosperity..BUT I am going to do my best to address an area that might be our best tweak to win the whole thing."
Oh yeah we decided once again we're too cute for the room and smarter than everyone else and we're gonna ride and rope with 5 ****** dmen.....Hmmm. And worst part it was a problem before training camp 22-23 and it was still a problem up until this TDL. Completely lost it seems that public perception was led to believe that the margins of victory and defeat, the gap between floor and ceiling, are so demonstrative with Lundquists inclusion then gosh sure makes us wonder how much concern should we have for the rest of the team apparently not talented or cohesive enough to offset this 21 year old kid on the 3rd pairing who’s generally next to a 20 year Vet that carries far more egregious errors in his time here and yet his ego is massaged and elevated regardless??🤔🧐
It’s the same just bury our collective heads in the sand and "hope that Kari and Niemi will be fine despite their almost aggregate GAA of 7! We'll always have Benn, Seguin, Spez, and Klinger and Goli to keep up our near 4 goals a game so let’s just add Kris Russel."
We've wasted their primes regardless of their current contract polling. And now our most lethal scorer in Robo has sacrificed some 40 goals-a-Sniping because it’s crucial he follow in Modano and Seguins blue print because it was the best thing for the franchise 25 years ago??? Hintz already does that, Johnston already does that. Why can't Robo just be maximized for what he brings just like Miro?? Take a cue from Deadpool Jim, Tom, and Debo and guide the team with nothingless than maximum effort!! :D
This has been coming for a long time and its so hard to deliberate with someone that isn't a bit more than mildly perplexed at our teams identity shifting more swiftly than a politician and short changing ourselves. Last thing I'll say to further buttress my point I hope that hindsight seems to be more of a Stars brass luxury than the fans. I was in the OMNI draft watch party in 2015. Connor McJesus draft and everyone in the first round had the chance to get something REAL nice. When Boston appeared to dismantle that gorgeous trifecta of picks it meant that either Barzal or Connor would be there waiting for us to deliver their coronation. And when they came up and announced Guryanov, I kid you not, the chorus of boos was instantaneous. A guy that some experts had projected in the 3rd round. And I guess that really does bring it back to my theme here:
Take seguin, sharp, and spez out of the question, and consider Miro deployment, excessive Veteran placation, the faksas of the world holding down a spot for a potentially better younger player or FA all for the sake of some of unidentifiable skill they bring yet we never see it just the overpayment, digging into the trench to stay at a mid level floor and not as high ceiling, philosophy differences from the top down...........
Has our brass heads been risk averse at the wrong time too often? Do Dallas media not hold them accountable enough for self inflicted shortcomings and unforced errors when the ultimate goal seemed so auspiciously attainable?? Scout team goalies the bane of our existence? Too invested in performance not production?
Thank you so much for your time sir and your work is above the rest!
So much to unpack -- and yes, I read every word. It's the least I could do!
I don't know where to start. I'm the last person to carry Dallas' water. When Bowness was the coach, I led the Angry Fan charge. Although I kept quiet during the 2020 run. So if I smell BS, I'll call BS.
But I think one way to look at Nill's tenure/philosophy is through the lens of the draft. I think that's fitting since that's exactly where he got his professional start in hockey management. Nill believes that's how teams are built. You draft well, the foundation is set, and the wins will take care of himself. The point being, because Nill covets the draft, he's less prone to exploiting it.
Now, you could argue -- and I think there's merit to it -- that you have to push your chips in at some point. Nobody cares how many propsects you graduate if you can't win a Cup with them. And I agree with that. So you have to leverage them as chips at some point. But GMs all have their own philosophy. If Nill was comfortable identifying those moments, then we would have seen that behavior from him. But we don't, because he isn't. And my "defense" here is that if Nill were wired that way, then he wouldn't be wired to leverage the draft so well to begin with. The same man trading for Tomas Hertl and Noah Hanifan can't be the same man drafting Wyatt Johnston and Miro Heiskanen. One may not have to do with the other, but Nill's sensitivity to the latter is why the former is never an option. And vice versa.
This is not to apologize for any bad decisions. But IF that is true, then it follows that such a plan would require more time than usual. I think we've already hit it. 2017 gave way to the new core, and the emerging core followed not long after. I'd say Dallas has a good two to three years to reach their peak -- while Johnston/Stankoven are hitting their primes as Hintz Robo and Heiskanen plateau -- so this is the timeline where Nill warrants true inspection. And I do give him some leeway there. I explained why a couple of years ago, when I had an "epiphany" about Nill's unique tenure.
Interesting take on next season. I think Dumba will surprise a lot of people. Injuries have forced him to rethink his game, and this will be the season he puts the pieces together. He will be paired with Miro or Harley, and he will be an upgrade for either of them.
The depth chart shows Bayruether who is not signed for next season. Capobianco is high on the defense depth chart. He is probably the first callup. Bischel's development will dictate when he gets to Dallas. Fans need to remember that his big body can make you forget he is only 20. He also needs the mental maturity to handle the NHL. Hope I am wrong, but pushing him too quickly could lead to a Val N 2.0 situation.
I got a lot of the summer writing done early, so I think I finished this before the Capobianco deal (?), and while I made sure to update it, obviously I missed a spot. But that's a solid point, and he's probably an upgrade from Brenden Smith at this point in his career. And totally agreed on Dumba.
I'm fully of the mindset that Stankoven needs to play more at center, and think Bourque & Stankoven's skill sets are better leveraged apart from each other in a 5 on 5 set. Activate their Wonder Twin powers on the PP, otherwise let them run their own line and drive play their own way.
Benn-Bourque & Marchment-Stankoven would be the best base set for an interchangeable 2-3 lineup, imo, with Seguin & Duchene as adjustable RW/C options on both sets.
Benn & Bourque seemed to carry a natural chemistry between them and drove play in limited showings, but I was mildly concerned with Logan being left to float and find seems. If Stankoven is going to play more of a tertiary play maker/sniper role on that line, I feel that role is better suited for the likes of Duchene or Seguin.
I personally feel like Marchment brings that extra bit of Bulldog out of Stankoven's game, while also making him the #1 shooting option on his line and forces him to lean into the skill set that's going to make him an All-Star. A supporting sniper in the form of Duchene or Seguin should bring that set into form quite nicely.
I know you didn't want to talk about it, but I'm fortifying this hill for the season ahead.
Good one David. I never played the game either, but fans do get a say. IMHO….the Stars got pushed around big time in the playoffs, and there was no response from the Stars. Whether by design or not, when the going gets rough, the rough should get going, and the Stars didn’t. Forecheck, hipcheck, or hot check……there must be a response that tells the opposition to back off.
David I’ve seen a lot more articles and podcasts with Joey that leads most to believe Miro will finally start again on his strong side because of the influx of righties. Now they may not be the best righties (I’m including Lundquist getting a look in camp) but we’ve seen Llubshkin hold up decent next to O’reilly and Miro is the ultimate ‘caveat’ when observing a Stars defender punching above their weight. Dumba and Harley has been tossed around. Much rather see Lindell with Lundquist on the 3rd pair. It insulates the kid who actually played well with Suter on the 3rd for most of last year and Lindell shouldn’t be on top pair anyway. Anything should be considered to keep Miro on the left.
One forward comment, don’t be surprised to see Stankhoven get a shot on the top line and Johnston center the second line with Benn maintaining his Doc Holiday role. Bourque on the wing there or occasional sub with Duchene one line down makes a lot more sense unless his camp performance is convincing enough to earn 2C on opening night.
Thanks for the article frequency during the August doldrums
The thing with Heiskanen on his strongside is that it pushes Lindell out of the top four, and that ain't happening. Lindell actually played more minutes per game in the playoffs than Tanev. The organization loves Lindell, even if this is likely his last and final year, and I just don't see DeBoer burying him on the bottom pair just to have a Heiskanen-Dumba/Lyubushkin, Harley-Dumba/Lyubushkin top four.
Don't get me wrong. I WANT to see it. I've been begging for it for years. But their best defenders are all left handed, which james it up. I'll talk more about the ideal lineups for 2.0 in September, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is how they start, and likely how they end. I suspect we'll see Seguin up there before Stankoven, though. Again, just my personal opinion. As mentioned, I'll focus more on what I consider the potential ideal lineup in the next iteration, but DeBoer is pretty consistent with his forward trios, which is amusing, because he seems surprisingly flexible with mixing up the defensive pairs (which I would assume is a little more disruptive to player chemistry, but what do I know?).
And thanks!
Just look to pav last season and how he still stayed up top even after it was fairly clear he was done. Seguin and Lindell will also get extra chances, let’s just hope that isn’t at the expense of people like bourque and bichsel.
I'm glad we're both pulling ammo from the same stockpile. I think the two of us specifically would love them to roll out this on opening night (assuming solid training camps to boot for everyone):
Robertson Hintz Johnston
Benn Bourque Stankhoven
Marchment Seguin Duchene
Dadonov Steele Blackwell
Heiskanen Llubshkyn
Harley Dumba
Lindell Lundquist
Let it roll until you have reason to change course. If it’s progressing well enough but the unfinished product could use a piece then god willing they set their sights on Rasmus Andersson or Adam Larsson at the tdl. Imagine that for a moment :')
Reason I'm focused on this area is because it brings us back to a broader discussion of hockey philosophy. We may all commend that Nill is a stand up delegator and change maker. His noble deference to vets running the length of a contract as opposed to a buyout and selling the Stars culture is all admirable. But how it manifests on the ice is concerning after a decade with him at the helm. Now we certainly can’t grouse and hang our heads over a stanley cup final, some western conference final runs, and some division crowns etc. (caveats like a 4 month layoff to reboot for a bubble run mutually inclusive with the credit given as well)
However, the perennial "i like where our teams at" mantra seems a bit hackneyed and meaningless after 10 plus years. I would ask him, Deboer, and TG, so you're completely satisfied that since day 1 of his rookie year you've endeavoured a minimal course correction to get Miro on his strong side with a competent righty next to him? So much so that their podium defense is "he's elite on either side anybody is the better for playing next to him". So whenever something is not going according to plan lets smash that Miro button on the controller and hope the configuration stays intact. Not enhance the surroundings of your best player??? (As Cuban and Co did far too long with Luka, just to add I’m aware this is not an exclusive critique to just one Dallas sport)
Does colorado ask Makar to play on his offside? Do they ask him to drag around inferior ogres? Hedman in Tampa? Dahlin in Buffalo? Fox in New York? Funny that the moment you stuck not an elite righty but a more than capable one next to Miro for a season well wouldn't you know! Norris numbers and hey look at number 4's crafty mitts crossing the blue line!
Instead they doubled down and decided to run 5D in the playoffs. Did it contribute an extra game or 2 that did not have to be played against VGS or COL? The visual evidence certainly supports it. Colorado didn't draft Toews they just went out and got him. Tampa went out and got Sergachev. Vegas well Vegas is a different gun slinger all together but you get my point. I'm not saying you unleash your entire armory of assets to solve every single imperfect dilemma. But where was the Pavs and Nill -esque civility within Suter? Rule number 1 when the Wild cut a player thats all you need to know whether to offer said player a phone call lol And yet we did, was it too much for Suter to acquiesce a modicum of that diva complex and take one for the team? you don't belong on the top pair bruhhhh. Why don't you play your offside? Why don't you speak up and say nah I want to a win a cup so maybe don't assign me the PP2 QB role. Deboer didn't just decide he was gonna role with 5 and give Lundquist the ax at game 82. So why are he and Jim not having these discussions by 1pm on tdl day saying "hey you might wanna bring a walker or a Roy as well because I don't have a complete 3rd pair that revs my engine." Because if I understand this aren't Joe, Dutch, and even Sulking Suter here on these show me deals and last hoorahs bc they believe that not only are we a cup contender but the GM has intimated
“for this window I cannot guarantee you a cup, BUT I guarantee I'm not clutching my key assets like sacred pearls or staging a coup with coach and owner in order to establish consistency instead of legacy, complacency instead of opportunity, nobility instead of prosperity..BUT I am going to do my best to address an area that might be our best tweak to win the whole thing."
Oh yeah we decided once again we're too cute for the room and smarter than everyone else and we're gonna ride and rope with 5 ****** dmen.....Hmmm. And worst part it was a problem before training camp 22-23 and it was still a problem up until this TDL. Completely lost it seems that public perception was led to believe that the margins of victory and defeat, the gap between floor and ceiling, are so demonstrative with Lundquists inclusion then gosh sure makes us wonder how much concern should we have for the rest of the team apparently not talented or cohesive enough to offset this 21 year old kid on the 3rd pairing who’s generally next to a 20 year Vet that carries far more egregious errors in his time here and yet his ego is massaged and elevated regardless??🤔🧐
It’s the same just bury our collective heads in the sand and "hope that Kari and Niemi will be fine despite their almost aggregate GAA of 7! We'll always have Benn, Seguin, Spez, and Klinger and Goli to keep up our near 4 goals a game so let’s just add Kris Russel."
We've wasted their primes regardless of their current contract polling. And now our most lethal scorer in Robo has sacrificed some 40 goals-a-Sniping because it’s crucial he follow in Modano and Seguins blue print because it was the best thing for the franchise 25 years ago??? Hintz already does that, Johnston already does that. Why can't Robo just be maximized for what he brings just like Miro?? Take a cue from Deadpool Jim, Tom, and Debo and guide the team with nothingless than maximum effort!! :D
This has been coming for a long time and its so hard to deliberate with someone that isn't a bit more than mildly perplexed at our teams identity shifting more swiftly than a politician and short changing ourselves. Last thing I'll say to further buttress my point I hope that hindsight seems to be more of a Stars brass luxury than the fans. I was in the OMNI draft watch party in 2015. Connor McJesus draft and everyone in the first round had the chance to get something REAL nice. When Boston appeared to dismantle that gorgeous trifecta of picks it meant that either Barzal or Connor would be there waiting for us to deliver their coronation. And when they came up and announced Guryanov, I kid you not, the chorus of boos was instantaneous. A guy that some experts had projected in the 3rd round. And I guess that really does bring it back to my theme here:
Take seguin, sharp, and spez out of the question, and consider Miro deployment, excessive Veteran placation, the faksas of the world holding down a spot for a potentially better younger player or FA all for the sake of some of unidentifiable skill they bring yet we never see it just the overpayment, digging into the trench to stay at a mid level floor and not as high ceiling, philosophy differences from the top down...........
Has our brass heads been risk averse at the wrong time too often? Do Dallas media not hold them accountable enough for self inflicted shortcomings and unforced errors when the ultimate goal seemed so auspiciously attainable?? Scout team goalies the bane of our existence? Too invested in performance not production?
Thank you so much for your time sir and your work is above the rest!
So much to unpack -- and yes, I read every word. It's the least I could do!
I don't know where to start. I'm the last person to carry Dallas' water. When Bowness was the coach, I led the Angry Fan charge. Although I kept quiet during the 2020 run. So if I smell BS, I'll call BS.
But I think one way to look at Nill's tenure/philosophy is through the lens of the draft. I think that's fitting since that's exactly where he got his professional start in hockey management. Nill believes that's how teams are built. You draft well, the foundation is set, and the wins will take care of himself. The point being, because Nill covets the draft, he's less prone to exploiting it.
Now, you could argue -- and I think there's merit to it -- that you have to push your chips in at some point. Nobody cares how many propsects you graduate if you can't win a Cup with them. And I agree with that. So you have to leverage them as chips at some point. But GMs all have their own philosophy. If Nill was comfortable identifying those moments, then we would have seen that behavior from him. But we don't, because he isn't. And my "defense" here is that if Nill were wired that way, then he wouldn't be wired to leverage the draft so well to begin with. The same man trading for Tomas Hertl and Noah Hanifan can't be the same man drafting Wyatt Johnston and Miro Heiskanen. One may not have to do with the other, but Nill's sensitivity to the latter is why the former is never an option. And vice versa.
This is not to apologize for any bad decisions. But IF that is true, then it follows that such a plan would require more time than usual. I think we've already hit it. 2017 gave way to the new core, and the emerging core followed not long after. I'd say Dallas has a good two to three years to reach their peak -- while Johnston/Stankoven are hitting their primes as Hintz Robo and Heiskanen plateau -- so this is the timeline where Nill warrants true inspection. And I do give him some leeway there. I explained why a couple of years ago, when I had an "epiphany" about Nill's unique tenure.
https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2022/06/what-can-jim-nills-past-tell-us-about-the-stars-future/
Interesting take on next season. I think Dumba will surprise a lot of people. Injuries have forced him to rethink his game, and this will be the season he puts the pieces together. He will be paired with Miro or Harley, and he will be an upgrade for either of them.
The depth chart shows Bayruether who is not signed for next season. Capobianco is high on the defense depth chart. He is probably the first callup. Bischel's development will dictate when he gets to Dallas. Fans need to remember that his big body can make you forget he is only 20. He also needs the mental maturity to handle the NHL. Hope I am wrong, but pushing him too quickly could lead to a Val N 2.0 situation.
I got a lot of the summer writing done early, so I think I finished this before the Capobianco deal (?), and while I made sure to update it, obviously I missed a spot. But that's a solid point, and he's probably an upgrade from Brenden Smith at this point in his career. And totally agreed on Dumba.
I agree with Barbara’s comment re. Dumba.
I'm fully of the mindset that Stankoven needs to play more at center, and think Bourque & Stankoven's skill sets are better leveraged apart from each other in a 5 on 5 set. Activate their Wonder Twin powers on the PP, otherwise let them run their own line and drive play their own way.
Benn-Bourque & Marchment-Stankoven would be the best base set for an interchangeable 2-3 lineup, imo, with Seguin & Duchene as adjustable RW/C options on both sets.
Benn & Bourque seemed to carry a natural chemistry between them and drove play in limited showings, but I was mildly concerned with Logan being left to float and find seems. If Stankoven is going to play more of a tertiary play maker/sniper role on that line, I feel that role is better suited for the likes of Duchene or Seguin.
I personally feel like Marchment brings that extra bit of Bulldog out of Stankoven's game, while also making him the #1 shooting option on his line and forces him to lean into the skill set that's going to make him an All-Star. A supporting sniper in the form of Duchene or Seguin should bring that set into form quite nicely.
I know you didn't want to talk about it, but I'm fortifying this hill for the season ahead.
Bayreuther signed with Lausanne a week ago