Given the cap space available and Dumba's salary, Chicago wouldn't need to eat much of Jones' contract. It also gives them a decent return and more cap space as they continue to rebuild.
For Dallas, I think you could make his salary work moving forward (dropping Dumba, Ceci's expiring contract, and the cap going up). This would push Ceci down to 3rd pair which is where he needs to be for the playoffs anyway.
Heiskanen, Harley, Lindell, Jones, Bichsel, Ceci, Lyubushkin, Smith is a strong group to take into the postseason. Dare I say, better than the group they had last postseason and I don't think it would be particularly close.
I think this is who you want him skating next to. I think you end up with him and Lindell because of your comfort with HH as the top pair. Lubu and Bichsel would be a nasty 3rd, though not the most mobile (aka, a pretty normal 3rd pair)
May be a hot take, but I'm tired of every good asset the Stars have being labeled "untouchable". What has propelled Tampa, Florida, Colorado, Vegas is their willingness to risk it all to win. I'm not saying they should gut their prospect/pick pool, but if you have a chance to get a real impact maker for a run you have to consider it. If it means giving up a 1st for Seth Jones, so be it. If it means moving Stankoven for Dobson, so be it. Continuing to settle for competitive is going to have us left at the altar over and over.
Dobson is currently injured, meaning he likely has an even lesser impact in the playoffs vs Stankoven this season.
He'd also set a pretty pricey presidence on his next deal that would make squeezing in Harley the next season quite difficult and may cost us Bichsel in the long run.
Don't hate swinging for the fences too pick up a long term RD fit, but I'd be super hesitant in this instance too make a move at the deadline.
If anything, I'd double back at the draft and see if I can maybe scoop up some draft capital. Islanders appear to be far apart on any sort of deal and the final season of Stankoven's ELC could be a major +, especially if they're wanting to bring Nelson back.
The defense as you've mentioned is kind of like a trip to a subway/chipotle/cava type restaurant. You can rearrange it however you want but it ends up being basically the same in the end.
I say screw it and go crazy for a forward. See if you can sneak a forward who wants to win a cup like Marchand and that the team has minimal leverage because of a no move clause (yes, he only has 8 teams of protection but you get my point). Roll out 3 killer lines and a 4th line that plays anti-hockey and trust that your defense does enough to let Jake see the puck to make stops.
I have a ton of glowing things to say about Dumba besides his smile. Dude formed the Hockey Diversity Alliance, Athletes Committed to Educating Students, bodied the Avs twins, and laid hands on a Tkachuk. I always hate having to say bad things about his hockey because he seems a do-right kind of guy.
This is why I felt like his contract was a do right by the guy type of deal.
He's entered the journeyman stage of his career and that's a juicy deal @ 3.75m for 2 years. He's a veteran voice and the type to lead by example for a young group of defenseman, atleast for the off the ice professional side of the game. A young man with more money than he ever thought imaginable can get real stupid, real quick, so a guy who's been a #1 and now comfortably eats scratches can be an invaluable intangible in developing a healthy locker room culture.
Cap going up means his full deal is a nice bit of cap floor insurance for a basement dweller and 50% retention makes him into a nice depth peice for a team that wants to begin introducing some of their defensive prospects.
Great article. I wonder how Jim Nill's career stage impacts his decision making. He's 66 now. How much longer is he going to go before retirement? Will that lead him to make decisions that put untouchables on the trade block should a perfect win-now opportunity arise?
The problem with dishing out the untouchables is that the prospect pipeline is drying up (catch 22 of being good for too long), which I think is also why David is still so bothered by moving this year's first for such a modest upgrade.
Although it's not like moving off of the older players is any easier, in our case. Even without another move before the deadline, there's no guarantee we get to keep everybody we want to.
Damn. For a Harley-Heiskanen, Bichsel-Dobson top four? In magical christmas land world where Hintz doesn't have NMC, I'm probably doing that. It's not the right move, but I'd be too attracted. Hintz is great, but I feel like people massively understate Dallas' blueline issues.
Oh I didn’t realize Hintz had an NMC. There goes that dream.
Yeah as a friend pointed out to me, Heiskanen-Harley-Dobson-Lindell gives you maybe the best top 4 in the league, and the Stars have the offensive depth to make up for Hintz’s loss. I also personally think that Hintz’s game and injury history make him a prime candidate to drop off a cliff at 30 and the Stars should sell high before that decline starts.
Yes, but we don't want to disrupt too much of our team. So getting a third team involved who wants prospects and picks to send their scoring forward to NYI.
If Miro is back for play offs then we will be way better if not no amount of patching fixes this . Dumba is appalling and needs to be moved but we had Tanev last year and in reality we just don’t score enough goals against Edmonton . Game six we scored one goal but series should have been ours when we were 2 0 up in game 4 in Edmonton and both Hintz and Seguin were clean thru and didn’t finish . Last point Otter has show no ability to steal crucial play off games yet . We live or die on Miro coming back
We are 3 rd in goals against and 10 th in goals scored . This team is very good . We were knocked out last two seasons due to lack of finishing . Let’s all take note of this as we talk about trades . On Seth not sure he is a game changer that people think and has long term deal
I'm gonna talk about this tomorrow. Kind of a deep dive into the defense/team defense. If Dallas didn't screw around and sabotage their power play, I don't think anyone's criticizing the offense. The real question is whether or not the power play could once again fail them. I know that's a minor distinction, but I think it's important. Fix the power play means fixing some of the offense. Whatever's broken defensively, on the other hand, can't be fixed unless Dallas does something. Maybe goaltending continues to bail them out, but I'm not so sure.
It's fun to speculate. So here goes:
Seth Jones for
Dumba, Kyrou/Stranges and next year's 2.
Given the cap space available and Dumba's salary, Chicago wouldn't need to eat much of Jones' contract. It also gives them a decent return and more cap space as they continue to rebuild.
For Dallas, I think you could make his salary work moving forward (dropping Dumba, Ceci's expiring contract, and the cap going up). This would push Ceci down to 3rd pair which is where he needs to be for the playoffs anyway.
Heiskanen, Harley, Lindell, Jones, Bichsel, Ceci, Lyubushkin, Smith is a strong group to take into the postseason. Dare I say, better than the group they had last postseason and I don't think it would be particularly close.
How much retention you would ask from the Hawks?
I think $2M. A few weeks ago, I would have said $3, but I don't think you need that much for the deal to work.
Are you slotting in Jones as 1RD or 2RD?
I think this is who you want him skating next to. I think you end up with him and Lindell because of your comfort with HH as the top pair. Lubu and Bichsel would be a nasty 3rd, though not the most mobile (aka, a pretty normal 3rd pair)
Lindell and Jones is probably where I land, but you could very well break up Heiskanen/Harley and roll 3 "top 4" guys down the left side.
Ristolainen from Philly for:
Dumba, Stranges. No retention for either side
May be a hot take, but I'm tired of every good asset the Stars have being labeled "untouchable". What has propelled Tampa, Florida, Colorado, Vegas is their willingness to risk it all to win. I'm not saying they should gut their prospect/pick pool, but if you have a chance to get a real impact maker for a run you have to consider it. If it means giving up a 1st for Seth Jones, so be it. If it means moving Stankoven for Dobson, so be it. Continuing to settle for competitive is going to have us left at the altar over and over.
Dobson is currently injured, meaning he likely has an even lesser impact in the playoffs vs Stankoven this season.
He'd also set a pretty pricey presidence on his next deal that would make squeezing in Harley the next season quite difficult and may cost us Bichsel in the long run.
Don't hate swinging for the fences too pick up a long term RD fit, but I'd be super hesitant in this instance too make a move at the deadline.
If anything, I'd double back at the draft and see if I can maybe scoop up some draft capital. Islanders appear to be far apart on any sort of deal and the final season of Stankoven's ELC could be a major +, especially if they're wanting to bring Nelson back.
The defense as you've mentioned is kind of like a trip to a subway/chipotle/cava type restaurant. You can rearrange it however you want but it ends up being basically the same in the end.
I say screw it and go crazy for a forward. See if you can sneak a forward who wants to win a cup like Marchand and that the team has minimal leverage because of a no move clause (yes, he only has 8 teams of protection but you get my point). Roll out 3 killer lines and a 4th line that plays anti-hockey and trust that your defense does enough to let Jake see the puck to make stops.
Let’s subvert expectations and say glowing things about Matt Dumba—he DOES have a great smile!!
I have a ton of glowing things to say about Dumba besides his smile. Dude formed the Hockey Diversity Alliance, Athletes Committed to Educating Students, bodied the Avs twins, and laid hands on a Tkachuk. I always hate having to say bad things about his hockey because he seems a do-right kind of guy.
This is why I felt like his contract was a do right by the guy type of deal.
He's entered the journeyman stage of his career and that's a juicy deal @ 3.75m for 2 years. He's a veteran voice and the type to lead by example for a young group of defenseman, atleast for the off the ice professional side of the game. A young man with more money than he ever thought imaginable can get real stupid, real quick, so a guy who's been a #1 and now comfortably eats scratches can be an invaluable intangible in developing a healthy locker room culture.
Cap going up means his full deal is a nice bit of cap floor insurance for a basement dweller and 50% retention makes him into a nice depth peice for a team that wants to begin introducing some of their defensive prospects.
It is so nice he wears a cage to keep it fancy.
Gotta protect the money maker!
Good article and great timing as it gives me enough of a headache to last until the 22nd…
Hate (as a fan) not seeing Dallas play, but this rest will be big for the team.
Great article. I wonder how Jim Nill's career stage impacts his decision making. He's 66 now. How much longer is he going to go before retirement? Will that lead him to make decisions that put untouchables on the trade block should a perfect win-now opportunity arise?
The problem with dishing out the untouchables is that the prospect pipeline is drying up (catch 22 of being good for too long), which I think is also why David is still so bothered by moving this year's first for such a modest upgrade.
Although it's not like moving off of the older players is any easier, in our case. Even without another move before the deadline, there's no guarantee we get to keep everybody we want to.
Yes to Rakell !!!
David if Lou comes back to you saying he wants Hintz for Dobson are you saying yes?
Damn. For a Harley-Heiskanen, Bichsel-Dobson top four? In magical christmas land world where Hintz doesn't have NMC, I'm probably doing that. It's not the right move, but I'd be too attracted. Hintz is great, but I feel like people massively understate Dallas' blueline issues.
Oh I didn’t realize Hintz had an NMC. There goes that dream.
Yeah as a friend pointed out to me, Heiskanen-Harley-Dobson-Lindell gives you maybe the best top 4 in the league, and the Stars have the offensive depth to make up for Hintz’s loss. I also personally think that Hintz’s game and injury history make him a prime candidate to drop off a cliff at 30 and the Stars should sell high before that decline starts.
What would it take to get Dobson from NYI? Maybe include a 3rd team, pass prospects, picks, and Dumba to move their productive forward to NYI?
Dallas going after Dobson is even more a pipe dream than Jones. Dallas' pro scouts always target the established veteran.
Unfortunately
I think you would get him on a one on one deal that would include a player of similar age and similar talent.
For example, Wyatt for him.
Why on earth would we move Wyatt for a 2nd Harley?
I like Dobson, but we have Harley. We don't gain enough on the back end too make up for what's lost on the forward front in that deal.
"For Example"
Yes, but we don't want to disrupt too much of our team. So getting a third team involved who wants prospects and picks to send their scoring forward to NYI.
Right shot defenseman would be ideal, but I'll settle for Dumba off the books.
Now that we have no 1st grade ammunition left or willing to trade, my guess is that Nill will go fetch another third pairing D, for depth purposes.
And my guess is that he will trade for Savard.
If Miro is back for play offs then we will be way better if not no amount of patching fixes this . Dumba is appalling and needs to be moved but we had Tanev last year and in reality we just don’t score enough goals against Edmonton . Game six we scored one goal but series should have been ours when we were 2 0 up in game 4 in Edmonton and both Hintz and Seguin were clean thru and didn’t finish . Last point Otter has show no ability to steal crucial play off games yet . We live or die on Miro coming back
We are 3 rd in goals against and 10 th in goals scored . This team is very good . We were knocked out last two seasons due to lack of finishing . Let’s all take note of this as we talk about trades . On Seth not sure he is a game changer that people think and has long term deal
I'm gonna talk about this tomorrow. Kind of a deep dive into the defense/team defense. If Dallas didn't screw around and sabotage their power play, I don't think anyone's criticizing the offense. The real question is whether or not the power play could once again fail them. I know that's a minor distinction, but I think it's important. Fix the power play means fixing some of the offense. Whatever's broken defensively, on the other hand, can't be fixed unless Dallas does something. Maybe goaltending continues to bail them out, but I'm not so sure.