I still don't see how trading Robo makes us a better team. We will not get fair value. He will leave a huge hole in the roster. There's no one coming to replace that production.
The Marner talk is just stupid. If we're supposedly gauging interest in a trade for Jason to offload his contact, how would we commit that plus another 5milAAV to Marner? It's laughable.
Curious about the difference in your perception of Robertson's defensive numbers vs Bourque's. It reads like you don't believe Robertson's numbers are a real representation of his play, and that Bourque's *are*...
It's not that I don't believe Robertson's defense is illegitimate so much as I suspect it's incomplete. What I think the numbers show is that it is developing in an extremely positive way. However, it was never a feature of his game in juniors, and until two years ago, it wasn't a feature of his pro game either. So i think he's developed into a legitimate defensive forward, but the numbers maybe overstate that effect.
Conversely, Bourque has always been a two-way player, and really solidified that aspect of his game in the AHL. That he's graduated as a pro and shown those capabilities reads like a logical development. Granted, Bourque has played much easier competition, but still, the principles hold true.
Thanks for the clarification. My view is much the same re: Robertson: he's gotten better over time. I also believe he's waaay more physical along the boards than fans realize. Just because he's not blowing people up, doesn't mean he's not physical.
I'll tack on here. Why don't we see Robo on the kill more if he's even mentioned with Seke vibes? Is it that he's not a C and doesn't have the speed to make a breakout the other way?
And speaking of PK, who becomes the designated box sitter for 2 minutes for bench minors?
That's really on the coaches. Maybe they think his youth in combination with his athletic profile don't work with what they're trying to do - kill aggressively. Regardless, I don't think it's a reflection of Robertson. Mark Stone does just fine. I would actually love to see it. I wonder how that perception would change.
Very good piece as usual. Some very personnal and unsubstantiated comments:
- Lundkvist is still in Dallas because Nill gave a 1st for him and liked him before he was drafted by the Rangers. I fear there was more "pride" than logic in this signing even going back to last summer
- The only way Dallas signs Marner is by trading both Seguin and 100% of his contract + Robertson. Nill will never ask Seguin to waive and, even so, Seguin would refuse to move. It's not in the DNA of this organization to do moves like this.
- They can do whatever they want with the forward corps, if no changes are made on the D Corps, we are bound to be a bubble playoff team next year. The Stars do not play in a vaccum. The other teams are improving.
- I pray that both Dumba and Lyubushkin will be gone in the next weeks. If a very very good coach like DeBoer is scratching both these players, in the playoffs, for a AHL Vet, a rookie and a highly overrated D (Ceci), it should send a clear signal to Jim Nill.
- I also pray that all this silly talk around trading Robertson would end right now. Unless Ottawa offer us Tckachuk one on one for him, we should just keep him as he is a pretty unique and incredible player. And he is young enough to build himself a reputation in the playoffs.
Another great, thought provoking article that made me think that one of the criteria for the new coach would be to help players like Bourque, Lundquist, Johnston, Robertson and others elevate their game in both regular season and playoffs. PDB and crew did a great job with Harley and Bischel but to me it felt like the young forwards were floundering.
If you put the Mitch Marner speculation in the right context I could see it. Hypothetically, if we traded Robertson for a haul then signed Marner for basically the contract we’d give Robo, that’s a net positive in assets to me. Marner and Robertson aren’t that far apart in value so you’re essentially netting whatever you get back for Robertson.
The problem is I think saying you could get perbix for anything less than the Boosh contract is wishful thinking. David says for the same contract as Nils and I just don’t see that happening this summer.
No issue with this approach. The big question is how this works with the nameless backfills this team needs to plug into the spots given the cap crunch. I think it probably ends up being top lines, seguin line and Benn line. Maybe the seguin 3rd line can be interesting and a launchpad for the kids.
I'm not upset about the Lundqvuist signing - Again, maybe I'm honka-ing away, but I think part of his thing is confidence, and a new coach could help. Or, at least we'll know. Could there be any value in trying to trade Sequin, talk about a salary cap helper?! Or is he an untouchable as part of the OG gang....I don't think Robo should go anywhere.
Unfortunately Seguin has an impossible contract to get rid of. Often injured, almost 10 million against the cap, and STILL with term. That's not even counting his NMC.
good point on the no move clause too...only hope is that whomever is on the line with duchene and seguin is going to bring out the best...or maybe they break them up...
I still don't see how trading Robo makes us a better team. We will not get fair value. He will leave a huge hole in the roster. There's no one coming to replace that production.
The Marner talk is just stupid. If we're supposedly gauging interest in a trade for Jason to offload his contact, how would we commit that plus another 5milAAV to Marner? It's laughable.
Curious about the difference in your perception of Robertson's defensive numbers vs Bourque's. It reads like you don't believe Robertson's numbers are a real representation of his play, and that Bourque's *are*...
A couple of things.
It's not that I don't believe Robertson's defense is illegitimate so much as I suspect it's incomplete. What I think the numbers show is that it is developing in an extremely positive way. However, it was never a feature of his game in juniors, and until two years ago, it wasn't a feature of his pro game either. So i think he's developed into a legitimate defensive forward, but the numbers maybe overstate that effect.
Conversely, Bourque has always been a two-way player, and really solidified that aspect of his game in the AHL. That he's graduated as a pro and shown those capabilities reads like a logical development. Granted, Bourque has played much easier competition, but still, the principles hold true.
Thanks for the clarification. My view is much the same re: Robertson: he's gotten better over time. I also believe he's waaay more physical along the boards than fans realize. Just because he's not blowing people up, doesn't mean he's not physical.
I'll tack on here. Why don't we see Robo on the kill more if he's even mentioned with Seke vibes? Is it that he's not a C and doesn't have the speed to make a breakout the other way?
And speaking of PK, who becomes the designated box sitter for 2 minutes for bench minors?
That's really on the coaches. Maybe they think his youth in combination with his athletic profile don't work with what they're trying to do - kill aggressively. Regardless, I don't think it's a reflection of Robertson. Mark Stone does just fine. I would actually love to see it. I wonder how that perception would change.
I’d love to see him on the PK.
Very good piece as usual. Some very personnal and unsubstantiated comments:
- Lundkvist is still in Dallas because Nill gave a 1st for him and liked him before he was drafted by the Rangers. I fear there was more "pride" than logic in this signing even going back to last summer
- The only way Dallas signs Marner is by trading both Seguin and 100% of his contract + Robertson. Nill will never ask Seguin to waive and, even so, Seguin would refuse to move. It's not in the DNA of this organization to do moves like this.
- They can do whatever they want with the forward corps, if no changes are made on the D Corps, we are bound to be a bubble playoff team next year. The Stars do not play in a vaccum. The other teams are improving.
- I pray that both Dumba and Lyubushkin will be gone in the next weeks. If a very very good coach like DeBoer is scratching both these players, in the playoffs, for a AHL Vet, a rookie and a highly overrated D (Ceci), it should send a clear signal to Jim Nill.
- I also pray that all this silly talk around trading Robertson would end right now. Unless Ottawa offer us Tckachuk one on one for him, we should just keep him as he is a pretty unique and incredible player. And he is young enough to build himself a reputation in the playoffs.
Another great, thought provoking article that made me think that one of the criteria for the new coach would be to help players like Bourque, Lundquist, Johnston, Robertson and others elevate their game in both regular season and playoffs. PDB and crew did a great job with Harley and Bischel but to me it felt like the young forwards were floundering.
If you put the Mitch Marner speculation in the right context I could see it. Hypothetically, if we traded Robertson for a haul then signed Marner for basically the contract we’d give Robo, that’s a net positive in assets to me. Marner and Robertson aren’t that far apart in value so you’re essentially netting whatever you get back for Robertson.
Prebix is still a viable option as a 2 RD pick up.
Pay the draft capital needed to shed Dumba and go get the dude.
The problem is I think saying you could get perbix for anything less than the Boosh contract is wishful thinking. David says for the same contract as Nils and I just don’t see that happening this summer.
Only hole that can’t be filled without external help. And unlike the TDL, this isn’t something you can like where we are at.
Hintz-Rantanen
Johnston-Duchene
Steel-Seguin
Benn-Bourque
Robertson running the main role as an accent peice too each line, and Back creating a base line to getting playing time..... I like the group we got.
Move Lybu & Dumba to create the space to get Harley a RD running mate and we're cooking with gas.
No issue with this approach. The big question is how this works with the nameless backfills this team needs to plug into the spots given the cap crunch. I think it probably ends up being top lines, seguin line and Benn line. Maybe the seguin 3rd line can be interesting and a launchpad for the kids.
I'm not upset about the Lundqvuist signing - Again, maybe I'm honka-ing away, but I think part of his thing is confidence, and a new coach could help. Or, at least we'll know. Could there be any value in trying to trade Sequin, talk about a salary cap helper?! Or is he an untouchable as part of the OG gang....I don't think Robo should go anywhere.
Unfortunately Seguin has an impossible contract to get rid of. Often injured, almost 10 million against the cap, and STILL with term. That's not even counting his NMC.
good point on the no move clause too...only hope is that whomever is on the line with duchene and seguin is going to bring out the best...or maybe they break them up...