If I remember correctly, Bourque's first half season in CP was similar to what he is going experiencing now. Having said that, I would still send him down to get him some more playing time. He is young, and regressing at the NHL level.
Bourque's ability to stick in the NHL will be predicated on being able to create and score. He would not be the first AHL MVP to have an unremarkable NHL career. Much like Lundkvist last year, the language and actions from DeBoer indicate he doesn't feel that this team at this time should be "developing" players.
13 pts through his first 33 AHL games in 2022-23, so comparatively close considering he was getting 2nd line minutes or better each night too start out in Cedar Park.
I think they need to give him more time to work things out in the top 6. I agree with two points: first, being sent down to the AHL, for all the positive messaging that can be wrapped around it, is still going to feel like a demotion/step back. Maybe that's motivating to Bourque, but I don't really see how beating up competition below his level is going to help him. Second, with the potential for a lot of turnover at forward next season, they need to figure out what they have in Bourque at the NHL level. Worst case, IMO, he's Jason Dickinson 2.0, but I think he can be more than that.
I'm not a fan of trading him this season, unless they really don't think he's got top 6 upside. The Stars have more problems than would be solved by trading him. They desperately need a fourth top 4 defenseman and the forward group without Seguin is kind of thin (and who knows how he'll look when he comes back from surgery). I just don't think this is the year to trade the future for a playoff run.
Well first Sean Shapiro suggesting him being sent down all the way from Michigan has caused this discussion . Not sure why media types think he is an insider . I know Gavin Spittle gives him a twenty five minute introduction on Spits and Suds . Which I presume we are all sick of but on Bourque looks like an NHL player can we just calm down and give him some time .
lol Dude! Enhance your calm, my brother. Sean is THE insider, having written a book, and covered so many different aspects of hockey at the highest levels. I can 100 percent vouch for him (not that he needs me). Beyond that, Sean never suggests it as an option because of something he heard. He was transparent about it being his own personal thought experiment. I agree with you that Bourque is solid, and I wish he got more credit for his defensive work, which I don't believe he does. But when you combine Seguin's money with one of their best trade chips in years, the case for sending him down makes a lot of sense if you're aiming to win now. I wouldn't do it personally, but this year's opportunity is truly unique, and warrants reflection.
As far as I am concern, I am a big believer in this kid potential. The talent is there as well as the work ethics and attitude.
A 30th draft pick that would turned into a defensive stellar forward producing 40-50 points a year is not a failure at all. It's a success. Not all the draft picks at that rank turned out to be a Wyatt Johnston.
Whatever they do with him, I just hope they will not send him down BEFORE that game in Montreal. We don't need another Tufte fiasco.
I think PDB's comments regarding Back were directed at Stankoven. I was at Saturday night's game and, like Savoir Faire, Stankoven is eherywhere...and hence nowhere. Left corner, right corner, high slot, behind the net...he should wear a red and white striped shirt so his linemates can play Where's Stanky. He needs to simplify his game. When he doesn't have the puck on the O-zone, go to the net with his stick on the ice where his position ought to be, or at center, get in the slot area and move around to create open passing lanes so his linemates can get him the puck.
But he's hardly alone with the running around. The whole team looked like a mite team with 5 guys chasing the puck all over the ice. You can't make plays with your 2 other linemates standing next to you in the corner.
Hence, there's the scoring issue and Bourque's issue wrapped up in one. Now maybe PDB has them doing this on purpose to make them less predictable but it sure looked chaotic and disorganized most of the time.
As for Bourque, send him back to the AHL. He's never going to succeed with whatever they're doing in Dallas. Maybe next year they'll have a new coach who'll instill some positional discipline so a playmaker like Bourque might have a chance to succeed, if he ever does.
Nobody is scoring on this team …… especially the PP .Bourque is a facilitator . It is NOT his fault that Stank is not scoring . He is defensively responsible . DTW that 2nd goal by Utah .was scored by a guy who was Back’s responsibility. Do NOT trade Bourque and for God’s sake ….. KEEP HIM OFF the 4th LINE . Keep him with Stank AND the Captain
I don't think Bourque & Stankoven are a sure fire pairing like in the AHL. They can hold their own, but both players need a bigger linemate help move bodies on the board. Size isn't an issue with just one guy on a line at the NHL level, but it does compound when they are paired together.
Caps killing it with Wyatt & Dutch, so I'd leave that line be and mix and match Mush once he's healthy in the bottom 6. Give Tank the 3rd & Bourque the 4th, then build from there.
I think as long as the FO can dictate a plan too Mavrik, sending him down could be a boon for the playoff run this year.
Depth will undoubtedly become a factor at some point in the playoffs, and it wouldn't hurt too have Bourque build up timing with all of our potential depth players in Cedar Park. I don't think Dallas should be in any hurry to do it, but some time around the deadline too make space for TDL additions seems like a smart move.
Stuff as many Aces as possible up their sleeve, before hitting the playoff poker table.
At this point it’s too early to say Bourque isn’t going to become a NHL player. But it isn’t too early to see that he isn’t a very good one now. He’s played all over the lineup, with almost every teammate. The only constant is he hasn’t developed any noticeable chemistry with any of them, including when he plays with Stanky. His magic at the AHL level isn’t showing up. Doesn’t mean he won’t develop a role at this level. It just means he hasn’t yet. Being defensively responsible is the first step to getting into the league. Minimum requirement! Unless you can bury it like Ovi, coaches are not letting you play in this league without defending. It’s highly unlikely that Bourque’s longterm role will be as a defensive specialist… too many other players are better suited for that, like Back is, due to his size, reach, hustle, and especially his ability to win puck battles. Looks like maybe Hy Ry may fit that category as well.
Stanky’s Tasmanian devil effort and hustle, his passes, his chemistry with almost everyone he plays with, not to mention his hot start last year, gives him more room to develop, more patience from coaches. Meanwhile he makes his line mates better each shift, and trys to find the net.
To be defensively responsible vs defensivey stellar/specialist is two different thing.
If Bourque develops inot a defensive stellar forward that can put it in offensively right and left, that's a pretty valuable player on your roster.
And you don't need to be big to be a stellar defensive player. Just look at Guy Carbonneau who played in an era much less comfortable for small player.
Man, David, this is such a great piece. Thanks for putting a lot of the "fancy stats" on the bottom shelf. Bourque is a really interesting case. I voted "trade", but I'm not sure I would for the 4 guys you mentioned, although a couple are very intriguing. Anyway, thanks for the great coverage.
Without knowing specifics on a trade I say he needs to spend 2 weeks on that top line. If someone long term like maybe JT Miller becomes available I'd be willing to move Bourque in part of a package
If I remember correctly, Bourque's first half season in CP was similar to what he is going experiencing now. Having said that, I would still send him down to get him some more playing time. He is young, and regressing at the NHL level.
Bourque's ability to stick in the NHL will be predicated on being able to create and score. He would not be the first AHL MVP to have an unremarkable NHL career. Much like Lundkvist last year, the language and actions from DeBoer indicate he doesn't feel that this team at this time should be "developing" players.
13 pts through his first 33 AHL games in 2022-23, so comparatively close considering he was getting 2nd line minutes or better each night too start out in Cedar Park.
I think they need to give him more time to work things out in the top 6. I agree with two points: first, being sent down to the AHL, for all the positive messaging that can be wrapped around it, is still going to feel like a demotion/step back. Maybe that's motivating to Bourque, but I don't really see how beating up competition below his level is going to help him. Second, with the potential for a lot of turnover at forward next season, they need to figure out what they have in Bourque at the NHL level. Worst case, IMO, he's Jason Dickinson 2.0, but I think he can be more than that.
I'm not a fan of trading him this season, unless they really don't think he's got top 6 upside. The Stars have more problems than would be solved by trading him. They desperately need a fourth top 4 defenseman and the forward group without Seguin is kind of thin (and who knows how he'll look when he comes back from surgery). I just don't think this is the year to trade the future for a playoff run.
Well first Sean Shapiro suggesting him being sent down all the way from Michigan has caused this discussion . Not sure why media types think he is an insider . I know Gavin Spittle gives him a twenty five minute introduction on Spits and Suds . Which I presume we are all sick of but on Bourque looks like an NHL player can we just calm down and give him some time .
lol Dude! Enhance your calm, my brother. Sean is THE insider, having written a book, and covered so many different aspects of hockey at the highest levels. I can 100 percent vouch for him (not that he needs me). Beyond that, Sean never suggests it as an option because of something he heard. He was transparent about it being his own personal thought experiment. I agree with you that Bourque is solid, and I wish he got more credit for his defensive work, which I don't believe he does. But when you combine Seguin's money with one of their best trade chips in years, the case for sending him down makes a lot of sense if you're aiming to win now. I wouldn't do it personally, but this year's opportunity is truly unique, and warrants reflection.
As far as I am concern, I am a big believer in this kid potential. The talent is there as well as the work ethics and attitude.
A 30th draft pick that would turned into a defensive stellar forward producing 40-50 points a year is not a failure at all. It's a success. Not all the draft picks at that rank turned out to be a Wyatt Johnston.
Whatever they do with him, I just hope they will not send him down BEFORE that game in Montreal. We don't need another Tufte fiasco.
I think PDB's comments regarding Back were directed at Stankoven. I was at Saturday night's game and, like Savoir Faire, Stankoven is eherywhere...and hence nowhere. Left corner, right corner, high slot, behind the net...he should wear a red and white striped shirt so his linemates can play Where's Stanky. He needs to simplify his game. When he doesn't have the puck on the O-zone, go to the net with his stick on the ice where his position ought to be, or at center, get in the slot area and move around to create open passing lanes so his linemates can get him the puck.
But he's hardly alone with the running around. The whole team looked like a mite team with 5 guys chasing the puck all over the ice. You can't make plays with your 2 other linemates standing next to you in the corner.
Hence, there's the scoring issue and Bourque's issue wrapped up in one. Now maybe PDB has them doing this on purpose to make them less predictable but it sure looked chaotic and disorganized most of the time.
As for Bourque, send him back to the AHL. He's never going to succeed with whatever they're doing in Dallas. Maybe next year they'll have a new coach who'll instill some positional discipline so a playmaker like Bourque might have a chance to succeed, if he ever does.
Nobody is scoring on this team …… especially the PP .Bourque is a facilitator . It is NOT his fault that Stank is not scoring . He is defensively responsible . DTW that 2nd goal by Utah .was scored by a guy who was Back’s responsibility. Do NOT trade Bourque and for God’s sake ….. KEEP HIM OFF the 4th LINE . Keep him with Stank AND the Captain
I don't think Bourque & Stankoven are a sure fire pairing like in the AHL. They can hold their own, but both players need a bigger linemate help move bodies on the board. Size isn't an issue with just one guy on a line at the NHL level, but it does compound when they are paired together.
Caps killing it with Wyatt & Dutch, so I'd leave that line be and mix and match Mush once he's healthy in the bottom 6. Give Tank the 3rd & Bourque the 4th, then build from there.
Does sending Bourque down for a spell potentially create an on ramp for Stranges too kick start his NHL career?
No way. I honestly think the Stars have their fill of small, scoring forwards. Even if it's a superficial distinction.
Idk, if Back can bring the beef, Stranges-Back-Bourque makes for a good quick strike offensive 4th line.
Tank-Mush-Steel sounds like the spiritual mantra of 3rd line hockey.
Think your last paragraph summarizes my thoughts, but remember….they kept Lundkvist around…….
I think as long as the FO can dictate a plan too Mavrik, sending him down could be a boon for the playoff run this year.
Depth will undoubtedly become a factor at some point in the playoffs, and it wouldn't hurt too have Bourque build up timing with all of our potential depth players in Cedar Park. I don't think Dallas should be in any hurry to do it, but some time around the deadline too make space for TDL additions seems like a smart move.
Stuff as many Aces as possible up their sleeve, before hitting the playoff poker table.
At this point it’s too early to say Bourque isn’t going to become a NHL player. But it isn’t too early to see that he isn’t a very good one now. He’s played all over the lineup, with almost every teammate. The only constant is he hasn’t developed any noticeable chemistry with any of them, including when he plays with Stanky. His magic at the AHL level isn’t showing up. Doesn’t mean he won’t develop a role at this level. It just means he hasn’t yet. Being defensively responsible is the first step to getting into the league. Minimum requirement! Unless you can bury it like Ovi, coaches are not letting you play in this league without defending. It’s highly unlikely that Bourque’s longterm role will be as a defensive specialist… too many other players are better suited for that, like Back is, due to his size, reach, hustle, and especially his ability to win puck battles. Looks like maybe Hy Ry may fit that category as well.
Stanky’s Tasmanian devil effort and hustle, his passes, his chemistry with almost everyone he plays with, not to mention his hot start last year, gives him more room to develop, more patience from coaches. Meanwhile he makes his line mates better each shift, and trys to find the net.
To be defensively responsible vs defensivey stellar/specialist is two different thing.
If Bourque develops inot a defensive stellar forward that can put it in offensively right and left, that's a pretty valuable player on your roster.
And you don't need to be big to be a stellar defensive player. Just look at Guy Carbonneau who played in an era much less comfortable for small player.
That would be a great development if he could even approach what Guy was!!!
Man, David, this is such a great piece. Thanks for putting a lot of the "fancy stats" on the bottom shelf. Bourque is a really interesting case. I voted "trade", but I'm not sure I would for the 4 guys you mentioned, although a couple are very intriguing. Anyway, thanks for the great coverage.
Without knowing specifics on a trade I say he needs to spend 2 weeks on that top line. If someone long term like maybe JT Miller becomes available I'd be willing to move Bourque in part of a package
I had not read that faceoff piece yet that was very enlightening just like this piece!